19. Getting A 25% Salary Increase: Mo's Journey

Jette Stubbs: [00:00:00] There were anywhere between, 25% to 50% salary increase and he chose the one that was best for him and his situation. So if you want to learn how you can get there and how you can do that and make a reality for yourself, listen to Mo and all the lessons that he learned. 

[00:00:16] I'm really excited to speak to Mo because Mo was a client that I worked with to land his first managerial position, increase his salary by 25% and land a job that was less stressful. By the time that Mo was in this whole salary negotiation, job phase, he had  two or three opportunities lined up.

[00:00:40]You're listening to the happy career formula with Jette Stubbs 

[00:00:44] where we talk about how to find what you love to do and turn it into ways to make money, whether that's a job, freelance service or a business, so you can live life on your own terms. 

[00:00:55] So welcome Mo thank you for joining me.

[00:00:59] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:00:59] Thank you for having me. 

[00:01:01] Jette Stubbs: [00:01:01] So can you tell me about where you were at when you started off with your career journey?  You and I have known each other for a while  and I had told you  I thought you had higher income potential. You weren't really hearing me.

[00:01:16]First of all, why weren't you hearing me? And  what was going through your head before you decided to start working with me? Cause I had told you for years that I thought you can make like 30 to $50,000 more than what you were making.  We yeah. The honest answer, like in reflection, I think I was just anxious.

[00:01:33] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:01:33] I was scared.  And that's the piece where I didn't want to dip my toes into something that I wasn't sure of. And there was like that self doubt, but. The, I think the lie that you would tell yourself at that time was like  maybe in due time    I'm comfortable where I am. I don't want to do any changes and    money's not everything and you know what, I'll wait.

[00:01:58] And whenever I decide to do those changes, they'll happen in a snap.  But I think in the background and just in hindsight, I know that I. A bit scared   I think that's a big one because you got to this point where you started to eventually apply to jobs.    You said, okay, I'm going to try and do it on my own, which is totally fine.

[00:02:19] Jette Stubbs: [00:02:20] And you started applying for jobs or looking for jobs within your current company. And how was that going for you? What obstacles were you facing?  It wasn't going well at all. I just had this  yeah, I was just like, I would  do this last minute application, but in the resume that I had for years, that I just  login things here and there with it.

[00:02:50] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:02:50] And I go in, as I said, I was in a place where I'm saying    when I feel it's time, I'll apply and I get whatever I want. And yeah, I was just, I wasn't getting  any even interviews side. And I did a couple of things where I even applied for things that I thought, even with my lower expectations for myself,  I applied for positions like that were similar to where I was, or even lower than where I was. And  you just didn't hear back. And  it wasn't one of those things,  when you're getting all these like automated responses and he tried to get answers and linear  oh, we had a lot of  applications and sorry, you didn't make the first round or the first gut that, that really hits you where you go right to successfully when you're calling from a place.

[00:03:42] Even   under selling myself  I was a senior analyst applying for an analyst job somewhere else. And yeah, I remember that one. It was like  I'm overqualified for this job a little bit, but I just wanted an out, I want to prove like maybe I should get a interview and  I wasn't. And that's, I think where we connected again, where it was like, Hey, remember when we talked  before I think, yeah.

[00:04:09] Maybe there's some merit to what you are saying. And  yeah.  Yeah. 

[00:04:16] Jette Stubbs: [00:04:16] That totally makes sense. Cause I think, I think you follow. The path that honestly, a lot of us are taught to follow up. Because he thought, okay, you are really well-educated, you have lots of education. You built out your experience.

[00:04:30] You thought, Hey, I landed this job. After I graduated out of my masters, then I should be able to land the second job when I'm ready. Like it should come.  Because you were able to get the first one. And at a certain point when you don't hear back from people, it becomes crushing, right? It's   is there something wrong with me?

[00:04:50] And I had told you previously, I just don't think that you're selling yourself effectively. And  I don't think you fully  took it in at the time, which is fine because everybody takes that information in, at their own pace. And I think also like when you have a lot of personal things going on, Like when you, you move to a new country, like we both moved to Canada.

[00:05:12] Like it there's a lot of  just getting on your feet and creating emotional stability on top of  trying to figure out the whole career journey and creating that career growth.  So for you, how did you find you handled that rejection?   Did you take it personally or did you see it as, okay.

[00:05:31] Oh, they're rejecting how I'm marketing myself or did you not really understand that concept? 

[00:05:36] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:05:36] Oh, no, I took it very personally. I, yeah  I remember. Yeah, it was one of those emails. I was very crushed. I, yeah, I still remember it. It was    cold breezy day and you get   you're so tuned to  checking the bin in your Gmail and  And  checking the app every now  and then you're like, oh, okay.

[00:06:02] That's those people. And as I said, it's like this robot telling you   that   we apologize for you to make the cut. And maybe you should, especially the words for  maybe. Work on your education and skills, right? There's  this kind of like free template thing.  We advise you that you cannot work and advance how's that.

[00:06:25] I worked on my education. I worked on my school.  I've done the certificates and the degrees. So  that really  I take it a bit personal. I was like, what else can I do?  Maybe because that's  as you mentioned that there's something that goes in my head, maybe because the name of the university of my first degree is not Canadian and maybe that's what people look at.

[00:06:48] And they were like, ah  that's not a. True or real degree, but yeah, it did. It was personal and it, for a longest time it didn't settle in mostly until we were talking that it's about how you market yourself, how to come out, you tell your story.  What are you're saying in the resume that it  settled in.

[00:07:09] But I think I just had that gut reaction of  I am being rejected and there's no way out of it.  It is like you build a lot in your life and. There was that thing where he was saying, do I need to rebuild?  There's  these 30 years or    like 10 professional educational years that pass, like I don't, I cannot restart from scratch there.

[00:07:37] Jette Stubbs: [00:07:37] Yeah. Cause you had built up so much education and more than one country.   Then you don't want to feel like you're starting from scratch. You apply for a jobs that are at your level or a slightly lower. And then what did you try to do to fix it?  What did you try to do on your own before you decided to come and work with me?

[00:07:57] Or did you just not know what to do? 

[00:08:00] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:08:00] I think I was just like, try to apply more. And  like internally at my job  I was trying to kinda do the nudges is like, Hey    the promotion    but it's like sometimes  I don't want to take it fully you know, like on, but there's some managers who.

[00:08:23] Don't see that   they  say, oh, you got to work for me like five, six years. They just, they're easier receptive of somebody coming from outside. You know that too, to  go through the process. But if you're on that team, it's just, it didn't change much. Or they come on, they take it slow because  you're there that you're on their team there.

[00:08:46] But I think that's the approaches that I did.  I tried to apply more. I didn't really apply that much more. It was just like more of the wills. Like I'll do it.  I'll apply. I'll look for something, but I wasn't really in a place where I was systematically looking for things, knowing what to look for and so on, I was just.

[00:09:05] More or less said   At the mercy of thinking  there's, there is a path, there's a plan. There's  the flow that I just go with it. And most likely you're expecting it from your current employer,  to say  like here you are, if you're here, we promoted you to manage your  that doesn't happen.

[00:09:24] Oh, sometimes it does. But  that at that place, it didn't. And I think that was my knee-jerk reaction.  Got back into where I was. 

[00:09:33] Jette Stubbs: [00:09:33] I think that's what a lot of people experience a lot of people think  and I've said this before, like you get the education, you get the experience, you work hard. And then the company that you're at is going to see you and recognize your hard work and give you the promotion and give you more opportunities and give you more money.

[00:09:51] And so often that's not how it works. Like I was speaking to somebody today who wasn't my client, but just a friend. And they got a salary increase. Like they, they accepted a new opportunity. That was three times their current salary. And  that included the ability to work from home or work from anywhere.

[00:10:13] And so they were like, oh my God, I just entered the working rich,  so excited about it. But it was interesting because their current employer had told them when they got hired  two or three years ago. They were going to promote them after a year. It's  okay, it's a trial period. Let's see how you work for a year.

[00:10:31] We're going to promote you after a year, two years into the job he's asking, Hey, what about this promotion? And they're like, oh, you're being too impatient. And that is  it's a common thing. The company that you're at can often take you for granted. Whereas the new company is seeing you as a fresh face, like new skills that they want to bring to the table.

[00:10:51] New perspective from working at a competitor at, or another agency that you can now bring an at that knowledge about how the agency works right to this new organization. So they see you and they see all this value and they're willing to offer you more.  Can you talk about your experience going out and selling yourself after you learned some of the skills that I taught you?

[00:11:11] Cause I taught you like the star framework for selling yourself, which is something that people can Google. If you do want to DIY it, you can Google the star or car statements for resumes and you can try and  do that stuff on your own. If you don't want to work with a coach. But after you learned some of the principles that I taught for marketing yourself, and you got access to the resume templates and all that stuff.

[00:11:31] How did that change and what were some of the opportunities that you got access to?  To be honest, the change, and maybe I always internally reflect the change. The first change  is personally like internally, right? I think there was a lot of resistance to  look at yourself in the mirror.

[00:11:49] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:11:50] You're always afraid that, what am I going to see? And, but having  a template or a structure to, to help you, you know what, unveil it slowly saying  these are my experiences, this is, but not just saying  I    and waiting for the doubt and   looking down at yourself because that's an automatic reaction, but saying.

[00:12:15] If I'm using this structure about what are my accomplishments, how do they look like  how, what actions  I took to, to do something, the results that I made and just.  Rewinding the tape of your career and said, oh actually, yeah, this is, I was assigned this thing and, or I was assigned to do this project and I actually went through it fully.

[00:12:41] And    we've, we had this many more subscribers of our users of our service because of what I did because of that  the feature that I planted and. It's it just seeing that, I think that's the first step is personally I'm going in this with  the confidence that I say, no, actually this is my accomplishments.

[00:13:04] This is where they're written down and this is who I am. But I think another piece that was part of the process is what to look for.  It's like we wrote these things down, but also. Yeah. It's not easy looking for the keywords of what to look for.  Especially when you're in a place you're like navigating, do I need a career change?

[00:13:26] Do I need something new? Like where do you start from? And I think the conversations that we had about how do you kinda guide  the search process, how to guide? I know there was like a phase of curiosity process  okay  what a job descriptions I need to look at.  And I think  that really.

[00:13:46] Broaden the field to narrow the field in a good way.  I think I was like navigating things. I was like, maybe I need, as I said, rebuild and restart. So I entertained that sort of speed, but then I was like, you know what? There's a lot of things  in my line of work and in my career that I like, and I want to stick to.

[00:14:04] So I started doing these  the job searches and applications more in a more structured way. And I. I found I was still not  gravitating towards  the field that I'm in, but more strongly saying I'm now qualified for that next level, that the more managerial role, that more senior role there and it D she, then   you get more response to it.

[00:14:36] I got. The  more interviews and it's  even  one where the process did not continue, was it, wasn't the robot replying to you?    It's more like a real answer and it's   you, you feel you're, you're seen  and. And it's the difference is  you're looking in the right place, but more importantly, you're reading the job description better.

[00:15:05] And I think that was a weakness with me,  i, it's not just not selling myself well, but I'm saying, oh, you know what, I want this,   manager role and this place that I like. And I just like.  Procrastinate and apply the last minute and just send, as I said, that standard resume that is  three years old with  patches and stitches on it.

[00:15:29] And that doesn't work because people then you realize after having these conversations and so on, they, when it goes through the process, they just, it's not as catered. And it's not as thought through, and it's not as structured as. Some other ones and that's where you see yourself different. And that's the last piece during the interviews.

[00:15:51] I could elaborate is  I'm more prepped, like I'm anxious, but I'm not as anxious because I know my stories. I know what to say. I know the selling point. More importantly, I've researched them well.  I looked at the job description very well.  I  structured my resume, my cover letter towards that.

[00:16:10] And  I've researched  the place that I'm interviewing with better. So you could see  like compared to past interviews that I had, like people's reactions and  the conversation that you have  I, I had a couple of. No, the job that I got  I got  the phone call after the first like interview where it manager, it was just excited.

[00:16:35] It's like, we want you.  That was one thing. But even others were like   I don't always say this, but I had  it was a good one for you and you did well. So these reactions too, I think. This is the whole package of differences that happened from.

[00:16:54] Internally all the way to, towards the end of those interviews. 

[00:16:59] Jette Stubbs: [00:16:59] Okay. So that's     you touched on so many amazing things. So I want to break down the process that we walked through so people can understand it. So the first thing I had to do was think about the type of life that you want to live with your new job .

[00:17:10] Because that's really important because you need to design your career to help you fund your life goals. So you needed to know what you wanted. You set goals, you wanted to be able to afford to buy a car. You wanted to be able to afford to pay some bills to how about your family.  You wanted to  Do  set different things where you had better work-life balance.

[00:17:28] That was a big one. Cause your current job initially was really stressful.  And you're starting to feel the burnout and burnout. Doesn't leave you quickly. Once you experience it, like it doesn't leave the moment you take the next job or sign the next contract. And   you saw it coming and you saw the, like the writing on the wall, you wanted to avoid that situation.

[00:17:49] So we came up with this list of things of what a better job would look like for you. Then we went through and we looked at your previous skills. And I think this is where you're talking about is seeing yourself differently, because then we looked at what have you done in the past? And so many people just talk about the task and I had you focus on what results did you deliver?

[00:18:08] What problems were you solving for these organizations, which made them choose to pay you the amount that they were paying you? Because you weren't making like a small amount of money. You were making a decent salary. It just wasn't the salary that you wanted and what you could make, you were making below your potential.

[00:18:22] And. That piece I find is constantly transformative for people because instead of seeing themselves as listing off a bunch of tasks, they now start to say  I added this value to an organization and I added this value and they keep on, they come up with this long list of things that they did to add value to an organization that shifts the way that they think.

[00:18:43] And then from there we said, okay, you've done all these things to add value already. Let's not rewrite your resume yet because a resume is designed to solve a problem for an organization. So your resume is supposed to be a history of meeting needs and solving problems similar to the problem in the job description or the problem for the client that you're supposed to be working with.

[00:19:04] And. We had to figure out what types of problems that you want to solve. And that's where you talked about it, both expanding and narrowing down your horizons. Because first we expanded out what your options are. You weren't limited to doing what you've already done. You have all these unique skills. You can combine in different ways to add value to people.

[00:19:22] So now we needed to. Narrow it down out of all options that you could really do. What do you really want to apply for? And then let's hone into applying for those jobs and making the best application possible. And then once we did that, the interviews started rolling in. You sent out. Maybe four or five applications, your current employer offered you a new opportunity or you had, and then you had two other opportunities.

[00:19:50] Two other interviews come up where you got very one, you ended up landing, and then you got very far in the interview process. But it also expanded what you saw as your income opportunities, right? Because you, you chose a job in the end that was 25% higher than your current salary, but you had other opportunities where you were like second choice and you were like in the top picks, you were shortlisted.

[00:20:16] And it was like 50% higher salary.  How did that make you feel when you got to that negotiation process? Cause you literally went from a spot where you were trying to figure out how to make it work. Like you were. I'm not getting any responses.  And then all of a sudden you have multiple opportunities lined up.

[00:20:37] And I remember you calling me and being like, okay, how am I going to negotiate? I need to negotiate salary. I need to negotiate. It was a totally different picture within  a month or two.  So how did that feel for you? 

[00:20:52] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:20:52] It felt great. A little bit of context, because as you mentioned, like a stressful job the aftertaste or side effects or  the impact of it.

[00:21:03] So it felt really great, but it felt also, I don't know, like liberating. Getting me out of the deep hole that I was in.  It's. It, I don't know. I'm very empowering too. It's but also there was that rush, that anxiety in a good way. So I think it's yeah, a little bit of emotional.

[00:21:31] Yeah. It's    it's okay to get emotional. Cause it really is when you make money, like money is money, but the truth is. You didn't just start to make more money. You created more flexibility in how you were able to design your life, right? You were able to do more things that matter to you because when you make enough money so that you can do all the things that matter to you, and you can pay all of your bills, making an extra $5,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, doesn't matter as much because that money is just going to sit in the bank account.

[00:22:03] Jette Stubbs: [00:22:03] But when. But making the extra money means you're no longer stressing. You can do all the things that you want to do to help the people that you care about. You can  go and buy a car. So you can go on road trips during a pandemic.  There are all these different things that you can do now because you have access to that additional financial resources and you're making more money with less stress, which is huge.

[00:22:28] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:22:28] Yeah, absolutely.  Yeah, just to  like personally to take a step back and I'm just remembering that time. It was that the project  the, that I was working on  was very stressful. We had a lot of like turnover in the team and I had to count off, fill in the gaps  and conduct cover for them.

[00:22:50] And right. And then it was good if I wanted to stay in that path because I was getting like senior executive visibility, all of a sudden.  And it's  And that, as you mentioned that then they, I was being asked specifically for, it was like  what if we get moat to, to cover for this job?  And all of a sudden, they even say we're seeing my value. But as I said, my, my manager was still thought I was still in that corner was like, you know what? We will give you an interim rule for  these two years. I'm not sure about the money, but you know what, we will talk about it later. So I was like being.

[00:23:31] Really  I felt I was being  taking for granted. And at the same time  I was working through the Christmas holiday  and the new year. And it just like all these, all of that never ended. And  I'm very close to family and I have   during this time a couple of health scares, like  for  for my parents and I wanted to take care of them, but I'm still  attached the hip through the phone.

[00:23:58] All of that. And I'm not making the money that I thought I should be making.  And  it's all these sacrifices.  You're thinking for what? So it was good that I was like, this was  my secret transformation that I was working on. And then you're getting these    as you mentioned, there was like one opportunity that the one would be much more money.

[00:24:22] And initially I thought that was like my, my.  Like a dream target and just being in that process and going through the interviews and being told  you were the last two and seeing that the one that they got later on, I found somebody  who has  like 15 or 20, more years of experience than me.

[00:24:43] Who's  so yeah. So then think that, oh my God, I was just like  they were actually torn between me and that person is, it was.  Very good. But also the job that I got  I was torn between those two because  all their reflection that'd be dying and all the money  25% more     is great.

[00:25:07] But also just the balance that I wanted, as I said, I wanted a place where there's certain aspects of growth, but    I like  the sense of  Community  like I said, it's an organization  that works in a more close knitted with a certain community that kind of gives me the opportunity to be the people person that I am, but also the sense of  being part of that community and so on rather than another place that is more  distant  from that structure.

[00:25:37]  That, that reflected on the live that I want. It's not it's  it's demanding, but it's not as stressful. I wouldn't be  working Christmas and  navigating  my parents' healthcare on the expense of work. And it happened like something in this job that they were very accommodating, very helpful.

[00:25:57] So yeah, like this such a relief being where I am now, and I ended up buying the car that I. I  wanted to buy it. I just like these things,  whereas   you're really tight on the bills at some point. And now you're like, okay, a few months passed and a guy could afford the car payments.

[00:26:17] I could afford these changes.  Could even, we talked about  negotiated one extra week off  holidays throughout that, in addition to the salaries, these things add up and you don't know what you don't know and having the process of. Thinking about where I want to be in my life. What's good for me.

[00:26:38] That might not be good for somebody else. What I value in life. And then  thinking about a job that matches it. I think  I was fortunate, but I also, I think   I worked for it and earn it  to get to this job and this place and  Yeah. It's not even the end of the road.   That's the nice thing about this process because you cannot just opened up  a part of your writing or you turned on a switch that is viewing career in a different way, right?

[00:27:09] It's not something reversible or  it's a skill you got to train, but    it's not something you will forget. 

[00:27:19] Jette Stubbs: [00:27:19] Yeah. And  that's really cool because once you learn how to narrow down what you want to do and  sell yourself  with more confidence, these same principles apply, regardless of whether you want  that next job or the VP level job, that's going to be like, 50 a hundred thousand dollars more taking you into  200 or $500,000 range, right?

[00:27:47] These same principles for selling yourself apply. No matter what level it's just that you can. Move through the levels faster when you know how to sell yourself effectively. And  you aren't a different person. You didn't go back to school. You didn't  go and get a bunch of different education or skills.

[00:28:05] Like those rejection emails were telling you, all you did was change how you were selling yourself. And it created all these different shifts. The value that you saw, you could bring. So you were able to negotiate higher salary.  And so you settling on the lower paying option was with 25% more salary increase a like with  work from home flexibility, which you negotiated to make sure that you could work from home at least once a week and have an extra week of vacation.

[00:28:40] So better work-life balance work from home. And  having more vacation time  plus having that supportive work environment so that you can do things the way it comes out with your parents and your family.  So that's huge. So what else have you been able to do? Cause I don't even know everything. You started to touch on it before we hopped on the podcast, but what else have you been able to do since you started this new job?

[00:29:02] And since you've done this. 

[00:29:05] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:29:05] No, as I said  I mentioned the car is, it's a big deal for me because whenever  cooped up and is  you start thinking about like, where do I go? Do I take hopefully transit and so on? And now I was like, I'm in my brand new car and just like rolling into city.  It's pretty good.

[00:29:22] Personally, yeah, I just, there's a lot of self care. I know we talked about career and so on, but I was surprised that now.   I'm taking more care about  myself, my hobbies, having time for myself that I think I would just too preoccupied with anxiety is anxiety about career, but pay and the time to, to not do that.

[00:29:47] And that's something that I got a chance to work on and take care of like personally, and  work-wise   I'm seeing this new job.  In more of   seeking out new mentors, even within my job. And I'm still  aiming to work towards  just  people in my personal connection, but something that happened, like I hasn't happened to me before.

[00:30:15] Is to be asked to do coverage, like for like my supervisor's vacation, like on I'm pretty new  on the team, like I was the first one  they want to say, Hey   I'm on vacation  for these couple of weeks.  Can you cover for me, like introducing that to the team saying  Omo is like, It will be covering for me during this time doing now the visibility of more in the more senior huddles and being involved in that and having that visibility, but with a more higher kind of executive level.

[00:30:51] People in, in my working place.  This is pretty new and this is I it's surprising, but it felt natural because  now I'm thinking about things differently.  And maybe  your colleagues or    your superior supervisors  see that and see that gear and all your approach to thinking things through and working through the team.

[00:31:16] Is different that I was pleasantly surprised  now, even with the summer, it's  I'm being asked to do that again. And yeah.  I'm the newest member of the team, but I'm being asked to come and cover for these responsibilities in, in, in my line of work  I work in healthcare and I had to cover  during one of the things.

[00:31:37] Serious COVID demands. And I have to be  the person on my team to, to connect with all the other team members  or the other clinical  requests. And, oh man  that was, but it's also, I'm always now keeping note of, okay, I'll add this to my accomplishments in the resume, you know what I mean?

[00:31:58] So it's just that process of thinking still going on there. 

[00:32:02] Jette Stubbs: [00:32:02] I love that. Cause once you learn how to sell yourself, you can show employers that you can do more so that they trust you to do more. And that carries on, like after you get the job right after you get the job  like you said, they were then willing to be like, okay, wait, no, this person, like in your previous job, you were.

[00:32:20] Like somewhat struggling to get them to see that you can do more and offer you the opportunity to offer you the salary increase. And then here you learn how to sell yourself. You pitch yourself into this job and not only are they offering you the salary increase, but then they're saying, Hey,  take on my job as your boss, like couple months into the job.

[00:32:37] You're now taking over for your boss and you now got these additional skills because they trust you to do more because you can talk, you can walk the walk and talk like part, right? Because you can sell yourself with confidence. And now you're driving to work because you could afford the car and you can go on road trips with the car and do all the other cool stuff.

[00:32:59] Let's be real, like cars can be expensive and Ontario    yeah, again and car insurance, all that stuff. So  it's amazing to have that flexibility. Okay. So my question to you is. What would you say to somebody who is hesitating for reaching out to help for help? Because they don't need  you don't need to come to me.

[00:33:22] I'm not the only career coach out there. I'm not the only business coach out there  but what would you say to somebody who's in that place where they're really stressed out by their nine to five? Because you've been at that place where you've almost hit burnout and you started to question  do you need to go back to school even though you have a ton of education and  what would you say to that person?

[00:33:44] What would you say to yourself? 

[00:33:46] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:33:46] Yeah. I remember how I started it when we said   we had the  earlier conversations and I would say myself, Hey    don't lie to yourself.  You're just scared, man.  This is what's going on.    I'll go with the flow and it will happen.

[00:34:04] It will not. You're just scared to kinda step out of your comfort zone. And I think just that's the first thing I would tell them. The honest with yourself, is this really where you want to be? And if not, just, yeah  look at the mirror, go through the process B, because that was the most difficult part for me writing  my, my skill stead down, writing my accomplishments.

[00:34:30] And do you, you'd be surprised again, I'll tell myself of  you've done a lot and you have to own  own it and  just move from there because honestly  if you stay where you are, that's people, what people will see. And  they might not really, it would be nice if somebody  held your hand and saying, you know what, I'll guide you to the next level, but.

[00:34:54] Unless you show it unless you own it. And unless you con    get up  get beyond that fear that there's nothing gonna change. But the other piece is, I think I was trying, but  there's, there is    there's a way there is a method to the madness of applying for jobs and like throwing yourself out there.

[00:35:14] I'm thinking, having the structure and then having the framework and    the expertise in the conversation helps.    It helped me look into the mirror because now I had not just saying, who am I and what I could do. Just having these kind of structures of organizing your past experiences in a way that you present them, even to yourself, it's  oh, good.

[00:35:37] That makes sense. I'm just going through the steps. And then  you look at the early, the document that you were building. It was, oh, man, this is impressive. You might not hopefully  if you could and you have all that knowledge good for you too, to  go through it. But I personally, I  needed  the help and guidance to  open up this honestly, new world for me.

[00:36:01] And  it's odd   we go  years and jobs, but  we never learn. Yeah. Taught about how to look at our career and career path and the skills that go with it. The same thing  for me, as  learning how to organize meetings and the how to plan things and so on within your job, right?

[00:36:22] You go in the first place, you don't know what you're doing, but the same thing we could, we go throughout our career and we never know the  the proper structures that kind of helped you navigate through it. And that's a long speech to my former self. 

[00:36:39] Jette Stubbs: [00:36:39] No  I love it because it's true. Like people believe.

[00:36:44] You are who you say you are. And if you are telling employers like, Hey, this is what I've done in the past. Now tell me what to do. You're leaving it to them to figure out who you are and what you're capable of doing. And one of the biggest things I try and help you do is  to make that shift to say, Telling employers, this is who I am.

[00:37:03] This is how I can help you. This is the value that I can add. This is why you should trust me to help you. And this is why you should pay me, hopefully the big bucks to like, make that, to make that a reality for them. So I think what you said is really important because so many people I think can resonate with that and.

[00:37:22]   And being afraid of stepping outside of their comfort zone. I think one of the things, one of the longer conversations that we had was this idea of creating a new comfort zone, right?  Like you step outside of your comfort zone, but essentially you create a new comfort zone because I think when you first.

[00:37:39] Had all these opportunities. I said, Hey, would you be interested in coming on my podcast? And you're like, oh, I don't know about that.

[00:37:49] And now  I gave you some time, I figured, Hey, let's see. And then I reached out again and you're like, okay. Yeah, I can do this. I can 

[00:37:57] Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:37:57] do

[00:37:57] New and new comfort zones is, which is nice. Honestly. And with the new one, I think  the inner conscious fit into that inner  grows, honestly, just  as you said  I wouldn't have had that talk so a year ago for sure, but even a few months ago, but it  grows. Yeah. I'm in places where  now that I'm in charge of a team, a mass more and more advice, and you're you embrace kind of these places where you're comfortable with talking about    your experiences.

[00:38:29]  Jette Stubbs: [00:38:29] I think you given  so much useful advice during this. Is there anything that you would want listeners or somebody that's listening to this? If you were having a chat with somebody, what would you  say was like one of the best lessons that I taught you that you'd want them to implement?

[00:38:45]Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:38:45] Honestly   the lessons here is that initial steps. I think  how to structure your experiences and how to write it down and how to really ex embrace. There's a certain confidence that I think that there's something that clicked initially that. For me was very difficult, but then it became very easy and that's just.

[00:39:16] Embracing that, Hey, write it down and start working on it. And I think it's not  a grand lesson, but it's so pivotal for me to come on the stab, do start and start the, I remember the first time we talked and maybe I should is    my  I was lazy with the homework,  it is just  the persistence.

[00:39:39] It was like, okay, no  we gotta get it going. We got to write it down. And you got. So I think  that is very important.  Don't give up if you're like, Hey, I, I slacked and I was supposed to  follow up on these things in the assignments, but  yeah, so it's might be not an exact lesson, but accepting, embracing that  I'm going through this new journey and I'll give it a try and I'll write it down and I'll put things on paper or  on my keyboard.

[00:40:11] And  follow through that. So I think there's    not a blind faith or that they can judge that one step, because if you're similar to me, you're always afraid to comment, just say, oh, what is this  new cap that I'm taking with the point career? So that's  It's a lesson, but also the trust.

[00:40:33] I think  that to the piece, just have that one piece of trust when you're working with your coach to say, okay, I'll do my homework.  Yeah. And not skip steps. I remember you try to skip a Houston house. So you came back to me. And I was like, did you follow the steps? And you're like, not really. And then you follow the steps and you're like, oh, it makes so much sense.

[00:40:52] Jette Stubbs: [00:40:52] And I was like, you thought you were too smart for the steps. You thought you were too smart. And I'm like, I still follow the steps. And I've been doing this for 10 years. You need to follow these steps.  Okay. So that's all the questions, but thank you so much. For the chat Mo  I really appreciate it.

[00:41:07] And I'm really glad it's going well for you. And I think we talk, you're probably going to stay in this job maybe  two years or so, and then look for the next step. But the next time you probably won't need me because you have all the skills to go out and do it because you learned it and now you can move forward.

[00:41:25] So thank you so much for the chat today.  

[00:41:29]Mo (Jette's Job Search Client in Land More Jobs You Love): [00:41:29] No, thank you for having me jette. And  yeah, it's a pleasure 

[00:41:33]Henry (Voice Over): [00:41:33] In the next episode, Jette will be talking about how to overcome fear and trauma as you pursue professional growth. Jette will be chatting with Nicole Lewis Keeber, therapist and author about the practical ways that small-t and big-T trauma can slow down professional growth. 

[00:41:48]Jette Stubbs: [00:41:48] we are going to be talking about trauma, professional growth and entrepreneurship, because I know a lot of us have things that we've went through, went through whether or not you call it trauma. It could be what's often called small T trauma. So these are like bullying in school or it could be, yeah.

[00:42:05] Big T trauma. You've experienced something that you can identify as traumatic in your life. We all process and experience things differently. And then when it comes time to us to negotiate salaries, to talk about our worth, to go out and grow a business, to build a career that aligns with who we are, our self-belief in who we are and what we can do creeps up on us.

[00:42:29] What do we do about that? And how do we handle it. I am going to be talking with Nicole Lewis Keeber. 

[00:42:38]Henry (Voice Over): [00:42:38] Thanks Mo for coming on the show today and sharing your experience using the Land More Jobs You Love Course and Coaching. And I'm excited to listen in as Jette chats with Nicole Lewis Keeber next week about dealing with life difficulties and trauma as we grow how we make money. 

[00:42:53]After that, once we've talked about the emotions that can stop us from going after what we really want, then we'll talk about how to negotiate by speaking with negotiating specialists on salary negotiation, setting your price, selling your business and more. 

[00:43:08]Jette Stubbs: [00:43:08] you're listening to the happy career formula 

[00:43:10] with Jette Stubbs 

[00:43:11] where we talk about how to find what you love to do and turn it into ways to make money, whether that's a job, freelance service or a business, so you can live life on your own terms. 

[00:43:23]this is a career and business podcast, but my two main goals for what I want to offer you are: one  the tools to build a career that aligns with who you are.

[00:43:34] So you can make money in a way that funds your life goals and the lifestyle that you want to build for yourself. Two, to have healthier relationships with yourself and others. 

[00:43:45] Because I think that if you have your financial resources together and you have good people around you, you can live a happier life.

[00:43:54] Subscribe and leave a review if you are enjoying the podcast.

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